The Edge of Retention

Ready for Flattening

As a sharpener for other peoples knives, my challenge is not getting the knives sharp, it is keeping them sharp. In fact, that is an all consuming issue as I strive to keep people from having to return more than 3 times a year for sharpening. Of course, there are people who see it as an annual event, i.e. getting their knives sharpened professionally.
Hats off to them, the majority sadly enough do it once in a lifetime if at all.

The real issue is doing restaurant knives, the "house knives" which are inexpensive and often abused knives. When I say abused, I just mean that often, the people using them don't own them so they are not prone to caring for them the way we do our own personal knives.

SO how do I keep those sharp in a professional kitchen for a month at least?

Well after years of experimenting and reading I have what I think is my best solution but the bottom line there is no magic trick to keep them sharp for more than a few months.

The problem I am having is this:

I turn in ten razor sharp knives to a restaurant. I don't see what happens after that but I know that they are steeled with poor steels using poor steeling habits. Steeling in fact for me is a bit of an issue. I spend a lot of time working on a precisely formed edge, as precise as I can make it with my hands. Years of working on this has enabled me to get a nice edge but I just don't see how slamming that edge against a steel is going to do anything but destroy it.

My biggest issue therefore with restaurant knives is that despite my best efforts. it is possible that the edges I turn in on day one are gone on day two.  (I have given up trying to talk to people about steeling and I am almost to the point where I give up restaurant house knives)

Back to edge retention:

Imanishi 220

I am finding that a nice strong clean edge built on a foundation of coarse stones is not only allowing to get the knives sharper than I have ever seen but I am finding that they are staying sharp longer.

Here is what I do. (Remember that I am starting with knives that have gone dull, the edge has failed and metal has to go)

(I will explain how this could help you too though later)

I strive to get the job done, i.e. from dull to very sharp with three stones consisting of 2 coarse and one medium stone.

I use a 400 and I make sure that the knife is sharp, as I have stated in previous posts, I spend the majority of time on this first stone and I get the job done with variances in pressure. By the time I am finished, and I am using weight of the blade pressure with the 400, the knife is sharp enough to be handed back and put on the line. Patience is key here and having a stone that you enjoy using will help a lot. (The stone in the picture above, the 220 Imanishi is not one that I enjoy, so I don' t use it, I have decided to sell it. I have to like I use so I use another 220 when I need one, the Naniwa)

The Chosera 400 is one that  I love. 

Now after the 400, I could go right to the 2k Naniwa Atoshi or  Chosera 2k and finish there. However what I do next is take out my Naniwa Professional 600 and repeat the process. Now it doesn't take long, the edge is already set, there is nothing to fix just a little more CR (Coarse Refinement) and again I use the Moderate/Light/Zero pressure pattern that I like.

NOW the edge is awesomely sharp and strong and now I finish on the Green Brick of Ecstasy and again I use the same pressure pattern but this is a quick job. I finish with trailing strokes (stropping) and that is it.  The edge is polished but there are still lots of teeth there and most importantly the edge is strong, able to handle some abuse for 4 weeks or one day dependant on the steeling.
I would prefer that the steels stay hidden and the edge fail naturally, not assisted by someone who thinks he/she is helping.

So the key is a nice strong edge and and edge that fails on it's own time.


NOW, how the heck does this help the average sharpener the guy/girl who sharpens their own knives only. Why do you need a coarse stone if you are going to be keeping your knives sharp with your beloved 1,000 grit stone?

If you use your 1k stone often enough I suppose you don't need a coarse stone. However, what if you had a 600 or even 800 grit stone to supplement your 1k. Would that not help build a stronger edge and save some wear and tear on your 1k stone?

What if you just let the edge go a little longer than normal and think " I wish I had something just a little coarser". Or what if you get a little nick in the edge.

In my opinion, it couldn't hurt  but if you are on a budget the 1k is good enough if you are vigilant, if you keep an eye your edges and keep them sharp and that means working on them weekly. Now by working on them I just mean some light trailing strokes, stropping them for a minute or two to keep that edge nice and clean. Get rid of any metal the succumbed to the pressure and got tired out and decided to roll over. Do it a favour and remove it with that stone.

Clean edges are key.

If you have a higher grit stone, the Suehiro 5k for example, that is fine to use as well, perhaps you could use that as your HONE, to keep your knives pristine. Then, every now and then use the 1k to get a little deeper into that edge.
I always think of a knife edge as a "V" formed by thousands of layers of steel. My job is to peel off the outer layer and expose the new layer underneath. The top one did it's job, it's time to discard it.

Dull knife owners don't do this, they just keep punishing their knives and  their food.


I really hope you go something from this. Know that these tidbits are founded on actual experiments with monitored results. The idea comes to life then I get the cooks involved or anyone else for that matter.

As I started off this post, making it sharp is the easy part, keeping it that way is not so easy but it's enjoyable trying to solve the riddle of edge retention.

Peter

Serrated Knives Video

In this video I show MY method of sharpening a serrated knives. There are several others and you can make them as simple or as hard as you like.
I didn't invent this video, I just learned the technique from watching other sources and then putting them together. I have tried several methods but this is my favourite.

If you don't have the gear I am using, try being inventive and make it simple, all you need to do is remove that fatigued metal from the serrated side and ensure the flat side is clean of any debris. A Steel may do the trick, be gentle and use just enough pressure to get the job done.

As I said, I didn't create this method and I have fiddled with it over the years. I have used micro abrasive wrapped around dowels to do this. You can try that as well if you like.

Peter

The Grey Areas

For the sharpeners out there I am sure you will agree that everything about sharpening is not exactly black and white, not for me.

I think it is important to talk about what I consider topics that for some folks may be confusing or just need some clarification. Now.....who the hell am I to clarify foggy subjects you ask. Well, that is a good question but think of it this way, I am probably older than most of you, so I have been confused a lot long than you and started asking questions many years ago. :)

The purpose of this post is to identify some grey areas. I am considering making videos on each one and I have decided not to go purchase a video camera just yet, I will make due with my LG G2 for now.

Here we go:

Again, these are topics that I found a little confusing, feel free to ignore them if you like.


THE BURR
- Do we need to form a burr with each stone and in fact do we actually need to form a burr. What is a burr?


STROPPING
- What is the purpose, do we need nifty leather strops and what about all these compounds out there and sprays and such?


ANGLES:
- Is it important to place a target on a specific angle for a knife, or is 15-20 degrees for example okay?


Japanese hand made knives
- Do we really need one to experience sharpness and hardness in all it's glory, don't they get just as dull just as fast give or take a week, they rust, they chip, what is the fuss.

Is this knife not just as good?
This is a hard knife, 66 and it is spectacular in terms of edge retention and the edge itself is absolutely fantastic when sharpened.  Plus it has a nice handle, much nicer than most of the handles I see on Japanese knives.

The Henckels Twin Cermax

JAPANESE WATER STONES which ones:
When I finally gave in to my obsession and need to accumulate stones, I was overwhelmed by the amount of brands and that has grown. I have tried a lot so I will give you my opinion on what works.
I have yet to have a lot of experience with Natural Stones and I am in no rush but when I do get one or two, I will certainly talk about them. (Out of every 100 knives I sharpen, 5 are Japanese and I just don't think the natural stones would make much of a difference on the knives I do sharpen every day)


TECHNIQUES
I have changed the way I sharpen about three times and I am now extremely comfortable and confident with my method which is very common, nothing weird, in fact it is quite traditional.

EDGE PRO or FREEHAND
This is an area I am very comfortable talking about, I don't have the Wicked Edge Precision Sharpener, I am very confident that it is excellent but I am not qualified to discuss it's merits. However, I'm pretty sure it is an awesome system, like the Edge Pro so I will talk about the differences between a guided system and my little old hands doing all the work freely.

There are probably more topics I can add here and again, I think I will make a video on them all.

I'm busy with sharpening right now but I will get to that, I love talking about sharpening and as long as folks remember that everything I discuss is just my opinion not the only way to sharpen.

I have not forgotten to do a video on Serrated knife sharpening, that will be soon.


As you know I like to finish with something unrelated. Here are some folders I just did.

Thank you
Peter

The gentle coarse stone.

Hi fellow sharpeners,

If you have followed by Blog you will notice that I have a very strong opinion regarding the importance of coarse water stones.

Now.....if you sharpen only a few knives, i.e. your own knives which is pretty much what most people do and add in a friends knife here and there than the coarse stone can be put aside. In theory, once you have your knife sharp you can keep it sharp with  the 1,000 to 3,000 grit stone.

However...what if you let it get a little dull or you need to do a little thinning or you have noticed a tiny little chip in the edge and you want to reset the bevels, you want to try something different?

I can't imagine not owning a 400 grit water stone but then again, I sharpen every single day for 4-6 hours a day so having one is imperative.  Now what if you don't need something that coarse but you do want something to speed the sharpening process up.

Here you go, I have the perfect stone for you, in addition to your 1k and up stone.

Naniwa Professional 600

I got this stone from my favourite on line store in Canada, Paul's Finest.  This is a fantastic water stone, not coarse enough to punish you if you add a little too much pressure but it measures up to the task of removing the metal you need to remove, the debris that is making your knife dull in the first place. The feedback on this one is awesome, it does not feel like a coarse stone at all, and in fact I suppose it is in the upper end of the coarse stone range.

Now I am trying something different with my dull knives, you won't need to do this if you are just touching up your semi dull knives:

I start with the Naniwa 220 stone to get the ball rolling, reset the bevels, repair and little nicks and make the knife sharp. Then I move to the 400 and sharpen with reduced pressure and I follow that up with the 600. This process is quick but it builds what I will call a very stone foundation edge, one that  is nice and strong and sharp and easily ready for a 2k stone to finish the process.

As I have told you before, I always use my stones in a pattern, a three stage pattern with each phase being different only by the variances in pressure.

Again, Phase one.....lots of pressure to produce burr.
Phase two - medium pressure to start removing burr and work on coarse stone refinement
Phase three - no pressure, concentrating here on cleaning the edge debris, burr removal.

This is what I do with the first coarse stone and the only difference that I make with every other stone is that I don't start with lots of pressure, it isn't necessary..

A clean edge is key and I perform this task by stropping on my 13k Stone with weight of the blade pressure only and doing this 6-10 times. Now I do this with every stone but you can just do it with the last stone, as long as the edge is clean, i.e. burr has vanished. That makes sense I hope, what is the sense of doing all the work to sharpen the knife if there is any burr remaining?
Clean it and it isn't that hard to do.


To summarise, most folks don't really need a stone as coarse as 220 or even 400 but it sure doesn't hurt to have one in the 600-800 range.

Also.......don't forget a stone flattener, the Atoma 140 is the best I have ever used.


Take care
Peter

Shaptons Pond of Sharpness

Hi there,

Sharpening knives is messy, I use a lot of water and it isn't exactly clean water, not the gritty water that is produced from the process of sharpening. Although the Shapton Pond is  expensive
($300 Cdn) I finally pulled the trigger and ordered it. It has solved my messy water issues, it's an extremely sturdy platform and holds a large volume of water.
The stone holder which in this case is also made by Shapton doesn't move around much at all, sometimes on a coarse stone it will slip a little but that's only if I am pushing hard and in fact, it is good indication (when the stone holder does move that is) that I am using too much pressure and I ease off a little.

The large stone in the picture is the Imanishi 220, I already have the Naniwa 220 and it was interesting comparing the two. After several knives on both there is clear winner. The Naniwa is superior stone in many ways.

The Imanishi has good points, the Burr formation is rapid as it is on the Naniwa and it excels at repairs and bevel resetting but the water management is an issue for me. The stone is like a filter and the water just pours through it almost as fast as you can put it on. It remains on the surface of the Naniwa for quite a bit longer and for that reason is much easier to use.
In fact, I put the Imanishi up for sale, I can't see myself using it. Now if I didn't have the Naniwa I would keep it for sure, it really does the job well.

Speaking of sharpness:


I am frequently surprised by people who give me some knives but hold a few back because in their mind it is sharp enough, or "it is only a year old so this one doesn't need to be sharpened"

I don't think this is a matter of them not wanting to pay to have it sharpened, I think it is a case of folks just not really knowing what a truly sharp knife is like. I can remember when I first started sharpening professionally how startled I was at times by the edges on knives that I had just done on the Edge Pro, then later on I was able to create similar edges by freehand sharpening.

A lot of people, most in fact have never experienced that level of sharpness and I know you all know what I mean. For those of you who sharpen you know that the edge attainable is quite something and while there are many different levels of sharpness, you can get to a level well beyond the factory edge on just one stone.  

For those waiting for some new videos, I have decided to wait until I get an actually video camera which shouldn't be too long. I have been looking around and now that I have done some research I am completely convinced that the video quality will be much improved and that is important to me.

I've seen a lot of sub par videos and it turns me off, despite the quality of the sharpening. I am not saying that the video I made is award winning or anything but I know I can do better.

Please have patience

Peter

Old knives Rock

Hi,
I get to see some fantastic knives, they are shipped to me from various parts of Canada and I never know what to expect.

This is another very old Henckels:

The owner said she had it for 50 years and she said she remembers it being old when she got it.
I sent pictures to Zwilling and they estimate that it is 80-100 years old.  Pretty cool, absolutely no damage to it and besides the handle showing some signs of it's age, it is a knife I would love to own.
d

 It was easy to sharpen, Naniwa Chosera 400, 1k, 2k and I finished off with an Imanishi 4k which does an amazing job polishing the bevels. Oh.....it's sharp, the carbon steel as you know takes an awesome edge. I can't wait for the owner to see it.

Peter